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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/10/2010 11:11:51 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3363
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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I'm confused...
Does your daughter want to do the garden on her own completely without her father's help? Why is grandpa even suggesting that? What does rain and flood have to do with dad?
Have you told your husband what your father is trying to get daughter to say?
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 9:44:40 AM
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LMKH
Posts: 147
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This is just my dad who keeps harping even after he has been asked not to. I am a little surprised that people think that we should cut my dad out. Previously, when I brought up problems like this, people said my children need to learn that there will always be people out there asking them to do the wrong thing. Plus, this is a chance for them to understand and learn more about people who have problems and disabilities. I know my dad's mental problems led to him having to leave his job several years ago. My children do handle it well. Their grandpa on the otherside had a stroke a few years ago and has been left disabled from that and my MIL, who previously hated me, has commented on how impressed she is with how well my children deal with FIL and how much care they display to him, even when he is angry and such. (he lost his ability to talk and is partially paralyzed and when things are out of place, he starts waving his arms and making noises and being obviously angry. My children figured out very quick to not be loud around him, move his things, and be understanding of his leg problem and so on).
People will always deal with others trying to get them to do things they should not do. I could be another person, or a commercial, or a TV show, anything. I like that my children have learned to think for themselves. I know Grandpa, both of them, are in grown up bodies, but even if a grownup tells us to do something wrong does not mean they would do it. See what I am saying?
My dad's issues are to the point where he might call me 10 times in a day, then on the 11th time, be crying because he hasn't spoken to me in a month. He cries over things on TV. He is quite emotional. Plus, I have gotten calls from him where he is lost then it turns out, he is only down the street from his own house. He clearly is having issues. But I am not privy to his medical information so I don't know if he has a diagnosis or what. I do know he sees a doctor, I just don't know the details.
quote:
ORIGINAL: purejoy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I agree that children should be removed, if possible, from the regular influence of a dysfunctional relative. However, they also have to learn to deal with people in positions of authority or influence trying to get them to do things they shouldn't. We teach our kids that no matter where they are or whose authority they are under at the time, our house rules are in force At All Times. Period. If there is a question about what they should do in a particular situation, they know they can ask- and they all have cell phones with txting for this specific purpose. If they disobey our rules, regardless of who told them they could, our kids are still punished for disobeying US.
I agree with this.
LMKH- I guess I am still not clear on if you daughter actually wants to take care of the garden herself? If she does, the way she approaches it with her father would determine if she was being disrespectful or not. If she doesn't care if he helps her, then I don't think there is even an issue at this point. Ignore grandpa.
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 9:45:55 AM
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LMKH
Posts: 147
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I told my husband. My husband is used to dealing with stuff like this in my dad. My dad does not mean harm, he just does not "get it" anymore. Too bad too. As a child, he was such a great dad. Now, he just does not get a lot.
quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
I'm confused...
Does your daughter want to do the garden on her own completely without her father's help? Why is grandpa even suggesting that? What does rain and flood have to do with dad?
Have you told your husband what your father is trying to get daughter to say?
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 9:47:59 AM
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LMKH
Posts: 147
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Oh, I am sorry. I meant would someone consider this backtalk IF she did it. She did not. My dad cannot clean up his act. This is where his mind has obviously and clearly gone downhill more and more through the years.
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ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
In the situation of the OP, I would not consider it back talk. I would consider it a child that is caught between two authority figures that are asking opposite things from her. I am sure that this is causing your daughter a great deal of frustration and is very confusing. She is not learning good boundaries, and it is causing her to sometimes make poor choices. She/you need to set up a better boundaries between her and her grandfather since she is responsible to you and your husband and not him. Your father should not be given such latitude with your daughter when he is telling her to go against her parents. At this point I wouldn't let him see my kids unsupervised until he cleaned up his act. When you are continuing to let your father do these things, you are sending her mixed messages. You are telling her that she should be one way and then putting her under the authority of someone who is telling her the opposite. By putting her under you father's authority when he is around, you are telling her that she should do what he says too after saying to listen to you even though it maybe 180 degrees from what you are saying to her..
So... is it back talk? How is she supposed to know? You have to teach her by example to use good boundaries with people so these kind of quandaries are easier to navigate.
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 9:56:38 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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I know she hasn't, but if she did that is how I would view it. If your father is not able to clean up his act, then his visits should be supervised so that your kids aren't being caught in the middle and being given conflicting messages.
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Believe very little of others opinions of you, and believe less of your opinions of yourself. The only opinion that matters is that of your Creator, and He thinks you're to die for.
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 10:04:56 AM
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LMKH
Posts: 147
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
I know she hasn't, but if she did that is how I would view it. If your father is not able to clean up his act, then his visits should be supervised so that your kids aren't being caught in the middle and being given conflicting messages.
They are supervised, that is how I caught this going on. He just really does not know or think he is doing something wrong. Thank you!
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 10:06:23 AM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 1340
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I think the difference is the person. Yes, there will be people that try to get your children to do things that they shouldn't do but this is a grandparent. That is often a special role in a child's life. I would expect my children, especially young children, to be confused as to what to do if mom said one thing and gma said another. My mil will attempt to tell my children that they don't have to do "whatever" becasue they are at her house. Instead of punishing my children, I protect them from the situation by supervising visits and immediately saying yes they do have to do "whatever". If she insists, we leave. She lives 6 hours away and we would still leave.
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Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/12/2010 10:36:14 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1557
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I'm not saying that your dad should be 'cut out', but that his influence on your kids should be limited- whether it is by not having the kids around him as much, or by your supervision when is he around. Which you said you do supervise- so that's good.
As for the original question, I agree with those who have said that if the daughter wants to have her garden to herself, that is a reasonable request as long as it was presented respectfully. IMO there is little that is more obnoxious than a parent who never lets a child have a project for themselves, but has to 'take over'. Which isn't necessarily what your husband does- that was just an off-the-cuff remark.
Anyway, if Grandpa is mentally ill/impaired, then I'd just continue to teach the kids how to react to him with patience and compassion, but not to obey him. My mom (82) lives with us, and my kids know to that she is not in charge, and that any orders she gives them have to come to me first for approval. They are not to argue with her, but they do not have to jump when she says "Frog." They come to me and I handle it with her.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LMKH
This is just my dad who keeps harping even after he has been asked not to. I am a little surprised that people think that we should cut my dad out. ...
People will always deal with others trying to get them to do things they should not do. I could be another person, or a commercial, or a TV show, anything. I like that my children have learned to think for themselves. I know Grandpa, both of them, are in grown up bodies, but even if a grownup tells us to do something wrong does not mean they would do it. See what I am saying?
My dad's issues are to the point where he might call me 10 times in a day, then on the 11th time, be crying because he hasn't spoken to me in a month. He cries over things on TV. He is quite emotional. Plus, I have gotten calls from him where he is lost then it turns out, he is only down the street from his own house. He clearly is having issues. But I am not privy to his medical information so I don't know if he has a diagnosis or what. I do know he sees a doctor, I just don't know the details.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I agree that children should be removed, if possible, from the regular influence of a dysfunctional relative. However, they also have to learn to deal with people in positions of authority or influence trying to get them to do things they shouldn't. We teach our kids that no matter where they are or whose authority they are under at the time, our house rules are in force At All Times. Period. If there is a question about what they should do in a particular situation, they know they can ask- and they all have cell phones with txting for this specific purpose. If they disobey our rules, regardless of who told them they could, our kids are still punished for disobeying US.
_____________________________
Susan R
Sunniemom's Survival Guide
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/18/2010 11:55:50 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1554
Joined: 5/23/2006
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I think it is perfectly normal and healthy for all concerned for any of my children at any given time to be able to say to me "It's very important I do this on my own Dad." My response would simply be if you change your mind and need my help at any time just ask.
If anything the child should be praised for wanting to be responsible and independent. The gardening topic would be a great opportunity for her to learn how to be assertive with respect.
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 3/18/2010 12:19:11 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LMKH
Oh, I am sorry. I meant would someone consider this backtalk IF she did it. She did not. My dad cannot clean up his act. This is where his mind has obviously and clearly gone downhill more and more through the years.
It would depend on HOW she did it.
It is possible, if SHE desires to do this all on her own, to respectfully ask her father to let her succeed or fail on her own. It is also possible to tell dad to butt out and be then guilty of disrespect.
If a child cannot ever request, respectfully, for an adult, even a parent, to stop or to let them do something on their own..they will never really grow up and they will not learn how to have their wishes respected by others.
The key here is not the WHAT but the HOW it is said.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Would you consider this backtalk? - 4/3/2010 3:26:58 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
Joined: 5/2/2009
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Your dad is undermining your authority as a parent. I found out that my husband's father has been telling our wayward teenager that our values and ideas are antiquated and out of touch with today's youth. This is a boy who doesn't need an excuse to do exactly as he pleases - and having that reinforcement come from a grandparent he loves and admires is doubly dangerous. Hubby's dad *used to* support me and tell both sons that "Mom's word goes," but somewhere along the line, he decided that it's better to play Jack the Lad with said son and they can be two boys together. He is almost 80 years old but I guess he identifies with our son's deceitful mind.
It is very destructive to have this kind of thing going on - the children are being set up for all sorts of other problems by having someone that close to them tell them it is OK to hide and not to tell about things, etc.
I would think you would see the influence coming out in your kids over the years. This is not helpful in the least, and undermines your child-rearing 100%. Even the strongest of kids is going to have some amount of problems figuring out what is really right and wrong to do, when Grandpa is encouraging him/her to disobey.
p.s. I think your father may need help, it sounds as if he is on the verge of not being able to properly care for himself i.e. getting lost, not remembering he has just called you 10 times that day. If I were you, I'd explain to all the kids that their grandfather is not reliable and has mental problems, and that if they follow his advice/commands/suggestions they will experience the consequences although HE will not because HE has the excuse of mental problems. I would NEVER trust him to be alone with the kids again though, since he's proving he's not in any way reliable or stable. This must be so hard...My FIL is in his right mind although even that can be hard to deal with.
< Message edited by Hey_mom -- 4/3/2010 3:36:22 PM >
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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