RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end!
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 6/14/2009 8:33:18 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
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Thank you SO MUCH!!! You have no idea how much that means to me. To have total strangers offer to pray for us is just...well...it is a huge blessing. We have our 2nd meeting with the counselor on Tuesday. The first visit went well, overall, but was just a beginning. Jonathan hugged me afterward, so I think we are on the right track. I'm sure it meant a lot to him that his dad was there, and that it was not seen as "broken Jonathan fix-up time," but as a time that we as a family can heal and find new tools for a new future.
God is so merciful. I am grateful that I am not in control, but that He is.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 10/19/2009 11:09:39 PM
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cabernetmerlot
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Curious as to how you are doing now? Sound like my son and our lives in duplicate!!
My son will be 15 in 10 days...same attitude and rebellion. My husband (his father) was raised by a US Marine. We did not raise our boys that way, but he (the husband/father) now expects our son to behave that way. He (father) and our youngest have a great relationship and have MANY interests in common...this (I believe) frustrates our oldest. Anytime (the oldest) gets upset he reminds us that Connor (the youngest) and Dad have so much in common and spend a lot of time together.
My husbands response is that Hunter (oldest) doesn't have the same interests as him. Furthermore, when he tries to play video game with him (son) he always beats him!!!! SOOOOOOOOOO, LOOSE ONE FOR YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR SON!!!!!! Way too much testosterone flying around here!! I read a couple of responses to your post from parents of girls.....TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS!!!!! Boys have sooo much going on it is really hard for them to control it, but they have to at some point...behavior tonight crossed the line...not sure what that means, but it needs to be responded to effectively. He clearly believes and has the upper hand at the moment.
Would love to know that you have conquered this now and have some wonderful advise!!
Thanks!!
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 10/26/2009 1:41:49 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
Thank you SO MUCH!!! You have no idea how much that means to me. To have total strangers offer to pray for us is just...well...it is a huge blessing. We have our 2nd meeting with the counselor on Tuesday. The first visit went well, overall, but was just a beginning. Jonathan hugged me afterward, so I think we are on the right track. I'm sure it meant a lot to him that his dad was there, and that it was not seen as "broken Jonathan fix-up time," but as a time that we as a family can heal and find new tools for a new future.
God is so merciful. I am grateful that I am not in control, but that He is.
I think that phrase right there is one of the most important ones you could utter....
because even though your son has problems (and they are HUGE)..the REAL problem here is that your family is dysfunctional (as are MOST families really)....add to that Jonathon's mental health issues...and voile...chaos in the making.
To be honest....you said you knew from before he was born he would be a challenge? how? why?
It is almost like from his conception you were setting him up to be the fall guy for all the ugly....and he has willingly filled that role.
I don't mean to be overly harsh...but my brother was similar to your son...and while 50% of it was his own choice, 50% of it was in reaction to attitudes my mom and dad had about him...
I am glad that you are going to counseling...just don't expect it to be a magic bullet. True change is going to be hard work...for ALL of you...and it may take years of counseling.
There is NO quick fix to this situation....it took years to make it...it cannot and will not be fixed in a month of two of counseling...so please be prepared to stick it out no matter what...because if you pull the "its not working" routine...it send a message to your son that your family is not worth the effort...that HE is not worth the effort.....
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 2/8/2010 6:46:55 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
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Time for an update - I've been gone from this helpful forum for a while.
We had an up-and-down process with Jonathan during counseling. Sometimes he would cooperate and sometimes he wouldn't. He stayed moody and difficult most of the time, and I really had to work hard not to react to his moods and his ugly words. He has hurt me so deeply over the last few years...
Anyway, the counseling helped up to a point. He has done somewhat better in school, has not been running away at least. He decided on his own that he would go ahead and take his ADHD meds for school this year. I had decided that I would stop nagging him about his school work, stop offering tutoring, any help at all, and just let him handle it. It helped our relationship but he still has times when he responds to me inappropriately (cursing, rude, etc.).
His dad has tried to re-establish a good relationship with him but they struggle. Jonathan still withdraws a lot. He broke up with the girlfriend who called CPS on us, I can only imagine what her parents thought of us...and we will never have the chance to tell our side of things.
The latest thing is that I keep track of his internet communications via a stealth software program, and while going through his latest set of facebook messages I see that once again, he is telling his friends that his dad has physically abused him and that I have emotionally/verbally abused him since he was 13! Why does he do this??? I suppose he is just trying to get sympathy but his friends probably want to have nothing to do with him if they think his family is this messed up. We have actually given him a nice life, and tried to take care of him as best we could...when he was diagnosed with celiac disease he was very sick and we cared for him and were afraid he was dying...it tore us all up and we were so happy when we found out that all we needed to do was keep him away from wheat, barley and rye...I kind of thought he would be grateful at some point for all the cooking I've done for him since that time...not that I need his thanks but I sure didn't imagine that he'd curse me out whenever I tell him "no" for any reason.
He's fine as long as he gets what he wants, but if we put a roadblock up to any of his plans, he cuts loose into abuse. Now I am very concerned that if one of his other friends takes him at his word and calls CPS, his dad could be arrested - CPS already has a file, even if the result was that the claim was unfounded.
I feel that I will never trust my son again. Isn't that sad? It breaks my heart, but he lies to other people about what happens in our home! How can I ever trust anything he says? He wants freedom but then he betrays me like this. Of course I don't tell him what I know, it just breaks my heart again and again.
I guess he is just a bully and I helped create it because his personality was always so demanding and overbearing. The rest of the family is not confrontational and so he can use his intensity as a weapon against us. I regret that he feels the only way to get attention is to lie to other people.
Oh, I almost forgot - he has also told his friends that he is a cutter, but he is not! He has made some scratches on his arm and pretended that is what he's doing, but he does not cut himself. He sounds sick, but he will not cooperate and do any more counseling.
I will listen to any advice or help anyone can offer. I have had times when I feel God must be punishing me by giving me this situation, this son who lies and seems to feel he is being abused.
oh, and p.s. He is now 16.
< Message edited by Hey_mom -- 2/8/2010 6:54:15 PM >
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 2/8/2010 7:12:19 PM
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bolt.
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quote:
he is telling his friends that his dad has physically abused him and that I have emotionally/verbally abused him since he was 13! Why does he do this??? I suppose he is just trying to get sympathy but his friends... Now I am very concerned that if one of his other friends takes him at his word and calls CPS, his dad could be arrested - CPS already has a file, even if the result was that the claim was unfounded... I feel that I will never trust my son again. Isn't that sad? It breaks my heart, but he lies to other people about what happens in our home! How can I ever trust anything he says?
Yes, you are probably right about his motivations... but I'm sure it doesn't make the lies hurt any less, and there is a real risk that your family will be re-evaluated. I don't think there is risk of an arrest without evidence, and I'm under the impression that if it came down to cops and foster care, your son would confess to his lies fairly quickly. (You are sure they are lies, right? You are not one of these moms who is just so sure that her loving husband could never... and so miss real signs?)
As far as trust goes, I'm not really sure that trusting him would be wise (or good for him) right now. It's pretty clear that he's willing to say a lot of things to work situations around to the way he wants them. Lots of people are liars, and your son is one of them. I know that's a deep sorrow, but it was never your job to make sure that he did not choose sin. All people choose sin one way or another.
quote:
have had times when I feel God must be punishing me by giving me this situation, this son who lies and seems to feel he is being abused.
Now, I'm sure there's a part of you that is smarter than that. God is good, all good, all through. That means that, yes, he does discipline people -- but it's fundamentally impossible for Him to have chosen a 'punishment' for you that involves -- What exactly? Intentionally forcing a young man to choose a sinful lifestyle? Does that sound like God to you?
It is not God that draws people into evil, lies and self-destruction. Think about it.
As for advice... have you thought any more about reform school, or perhaps, at this point, he might qualify for residential mental health treatment (with or without his co-operation)? I don't think there's much more you are capable of doing for him. (Are you choosing your battles? And have you considered treating him as an adult, as I outlined earlier in the thread?)
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 2/8/2010 7:33:52 PM
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CMT8808
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HeyMom~
Personally I do not know where you live, but I would look into sending him to a bootcamp. Since he is 16 he can not say No.
Also if he feels so against his family, you can also offer him the choice to empancipate himself, but would discuss with him what emancipation entails.
I wish my younger sister was on this forum, because her son also gives her similar grief and even went so far as to contact an attorney.
He threatens to call the police and state she is beating him, when at this point in her life she clearly is not. (He is tall and towers over her, plus is active in school sports.)
It sounds like he is seeking attention by dramatizing his life with issues to feel important or to feel he belongs.
I am not there yet (teen stage) but do know that you can take control.
Children always test the waters at all ages and it is unfortunate that this has esculated.
Do not give in to his tantrums and demands, as it will only keep the cycle going.
Find a boot camp you can send him to (I believe they are like 2-4 weeks long)
You can most definitely refute CPS with your side (my younger sister had to do this)
If your son believes life is sooooo bad at him, give him options:
Make him a ward of the state
offer him emancipation (making clear what that entails and how he will not receive financial assistance from either you or your husband.)
You need to get tough
CMT
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 2/9/2010 2:05:51 AM
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deermousie
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I'm so sorry you guys are having such a rough time.
It would be good if your husband would read up on being a Christian father, but it sounds like he needs a better relationship with God first. It's so hard to see God as a good Father when the earthly one failed so badly. Pray; it's a spiritual battle.
Linda Kane is a neurodevelopmentalist working with ADHD and has had good success. See www.hope-future.org - she travels the country and I'm pretty sure she goes to Texas (pretty big place - you'll have to find out if she's close enough) - look here: http://www.ican-do.net/links.htm.
Your son may have ADHD but he's also got a raging sin problem. I've seen ROTC in high schools work great things with unruly kids (strong, polite male leadership with real clout) and that could be the strength your son isn't getting from his dad (who probably wants to do the right thing but doesn't know how. Feel bad for him, too; he probably knows he's blowing the man thing). And pray for the sin.
It seems when boys get in their midteens, it's time for the fathers to take over the raising. I vote military school.
I'm praying for you tonight; this has got to be so tough on everyone. (((HUgs)))
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Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 2/9/2010 1:02:03 PM
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Hey_mom
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As usual, your responses have me in tears...I am so thankful that the internet has made it possible to reach out and be comforted by others in this way...These situations are so isolating otherwise...I have friends in many circles but sometimes feel that they get tired of hearing about it, or they just don't have any wisdom to impart.
Bolt, I am 100% sure that my husband isn't abusing our son. I would never protect anyone that I thought was hurting my kids! He is flawed in many ways, but he loves both our sons as deeply as he can and wants only the best for them. There have been times when he has lost his temper and yelled at our son, and the last time when our son was threatening me and punched through the wall, his dad did push him up against the wall, but there's never been any abuse. It's not the best way to deal with a bad situation, but our son pushes and pushes and then pushes some more, and his dad doesn't know how to deal with his own temper when that happens. I've made mistakes too, I've slapped him a couple of times for his rudeness (he's called me a b!tch more times than I can count, to my face). But this does not qualify as "emotional and verbal abuse." That is just like a bully - they do something and then convince themselves that others are actually doing something to *them.*
I do have an agency in Phoenix in my back pocket, but it's kind of a worse-case fall-back, in case he were to get into drugs or alcohol. It's called Hope4Teens. With his dietary limitations, it's not easy to find any schools that can provide him safe food. This organization places teens in private homes so they can work the diet more easily. They will even come and get him and take him there, for extra $$ of course. I have explored all sorts of schools all over the US and so far, I haven't found a place that we can afford, and that can handle a gluten-free diet.
The emancipation idea is something I will have to consider...My sister was placed with some cousins when she went wild and Dad couldn't handle her or supervise her adequately. I will really have to think about that, and pray about it...I'm sure my son wouldn't want that, because in his heart he knows he has it pretty good here. I wish there was some way to make him see what he is doing is wrong, but that may take years to unfold...or it could happen today...one of the things that frightens me too is if he were to suddenly die, would he really be saved? Because he is so not in communication with God right now. Yes, he was baptized as a child but that may as well have not happened, the way he has turned. (Please don't tell me that the Catholic faith is not Christian, or lecture me about it, some other time, not now!)
Do any of you think it would be a good idea for my husband and I to go ahead and meet with a lawyer now? I am thinking that we need advice on how to protect ourselves in case our son or one of his friends does something again. I do not want to be blindsided or caught off-guard, which is why I monitor his chats with his friends. In fact I am going to see if I can also get all his phone messages so I know everything he is telling his friends.
CPS never contacted us again after they finished interviewing everyone, including his doctor. We have no idea if they are done with our file or just what happened. Should I pursue getting a copy of that file and then getting it erased? I think I know the answer to that, maybe that is one thing a lawyer can do for us. I really want to know what was alleged and by whom.
Deermousie, you have really hit the heart of the problem...my husband is not on a walk with Christ at the present time. I have been praying for God to take his heart ever since we had our first son. So far, my prayers have been answered, "not yet." My husband is a much better dad than his dad was to him, since his dad basically left the family and returned only sporadically. Yet there is something that keeps my husband from truly being connected to his own sons...he sees life as a workplace. We come from opposite viewpoints on this - I believe there is no salvation through work but he says he does believe that. Our shared faith has always taught that, too. But I have moved away from that as I read the Bible more. I think God does want us to work diligently, especially on the Great Commission, but only through Jesus Christ are we saved. And that is grace and grace alone...
Well you are all helping me tremendously. Dad and son are actually going on a school retreat tonight and tomorrow - a father/son retreat. It won't be long enough, IMO, to really help with much, but I know God has the power to change things in the blink of an eye if he chooses to...I will be praying for them to communicate and truly hear each other...
I'll keep this thread updated.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 9:44:24 AM
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Hey_mom
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Here is an update - and things have not gotten better...
I keep software on the computer, as I told you, so I can keep track of what is going on. I was shocked to see that Jonathan was still telling relative strangers that we are abusing him, when the reality is that he lives a pretty easy life.
Last Saturday, he told us that he wanted to meet some friends at a nearby mall. Told us his friend Dillon would be there with his g/f and that he, Jonathan, would be in the role of "wing-man," which as I understand it, is sort of chaperoning in some way (as if HE could fulfill that role!). I suspected that something else was going to happen but we allowed him to go.
The next time I checked his Facebook communications, he had been bragging that his girlfriend, who is 17 and able to drive, picked him up at the mall and took him to a nearby parking garage to make out. They were chased out by security. I'm pretty sure they headed to our house to continue making out while my husband and I were at church, but Jonathan had forgotten his keys and couldn't get into the house (whew, thank you Lord!).
All of this is completely behind our backs and goes contrary to MY values. His dad actually suggested to me that we give him condoms at this point. I am here to testify that if you marry against God's values, and God gets ahold of you, it's going to be heartache and problems. We weren't unequally yoked when we married because I hadn't been walking with God since I was very young and lost my mother, but once I had our first son, I recognized that God had never left me and I had a huge reckoning and return to Christ. My husband did not have that experience and his heart is still in the material world. He goes to church with us but other than that, God has no place in his life that I can see. He's an honorable man - very ethical, honest, a good person - but he doesn't base his life on what God expects of him...except he thinks that God wants us to earn salvation and that he is actually doing more of that than I am, since I am not working outside the home.
I have to be honest here so I can face the facts. I got really angry at Jonathan yesterday because he wants to take this girl (or, she will take him, more accurately) on a picnic this Friday, and when I told him he could do that at our house, he got angry and nasty again. Every time we give him any limits or boundaries at all, he rebels and refuses to cooperate. He left the house for 3 hours, as he has done many times.
I am ready to just give up on this whole thing. I have thought about leaving my husband and him and just letting them figure it out together - whatever happens to our son, it's beyond me at this point since his dad doesn't believe as I do, that young people should remain pure until marriage. I have seen the wreckage from pre-marital sex in my own life, and I want more for my sons. I want them not to have the heartache or cause the heartache that I have lived. But my husband doesn't feel that way, he's not filled with regret and pain - He feels it's "normal" to some extent.
I guess I can't ask you all for advice and help, really. I kind of wish that God had not brought me back to him, because my husband and I would have been on the same page if I had not re-committed my heart to God. It looks to me as if we are going to split up over these moral beliefs, how can that be God's plan? Why can't God take hold of my husband and change his heart? I have prayed so long for that to happen! I can't go back to where I used to be, and we are far apart right now over our son and life in general.
I thought about finding another place for our son to live until he is 18, but this morning I think it is me who needs to go. Father and son can work it out and find their way. Whatever happens next, at least they won't have me standing in the way. And our son can blame me for leaving and make sense of his emotions that way - he can turn all his anger toward hatred of me and forgive his dad for living with such a crazy b!tch. It's a win all around!
p.s. my husband refuses, or can't carry through, any positive response to Jonathan - so Jonathan is totally without healthy male role models right now. I have prayed for that too but so far, there is nothing I can do...Jonathan is not interested in anything resembling normal family life or hobbies. He wants to play his guitar, go out with his friends and g/f, and not have any responsibilities. I would love for him to be out of the house and on his own, but I can't emancipate him, he has to do that himself. Told him this morning to start asking around to see if someone else can take him, I probably shouldn't have said that but he keeps telling us we are horrible parents and everyone else's parents are great and no problem. By age 16 you'd expect a little more maturity, but his ADHD keeps him immature to the age of perhaps 11-12. That is when kids think their parents are the only ones that suck. By 16 he should understand that most parents do have rules and expectations and that these expectations are not unreasonable. But that is not where he is. And Dad can't or won't take the initiative and pull him back from the precipice. I am sorry that we married, I really am. Too much heartache, I can't see any good result here.
< Message edited by Hey_mom -- 3/4/2010 9:59:13 AM >
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 10:02:32 AM
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bolt.
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Please do not allow pain, anger and bitterness to define your decisions. Please do not be hasty. Your situation is difficult, but choosing to run away when your covenants are not broken would be deeply unfaithful.
God has given your son freedom to be promiscuous. He has given you the duty to try and influence him towards a relationship with Jesus that would change his moral choices. If he is rejecting the offer of the gospel and choosing the way of the world, he is exercising his freedom, just as Eve and Adam did. That does not make him not your son. And it certainly does not make your husband not your husband.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 11:59:22 AM
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LMKH
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Is he on Focalin? My child went ...horrible...when on it. I googled and found out that can happen. Maybe try switching meds.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 2:13:38 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
Joined: 5/2/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
Please do not allow pain, anger and bitterness to define your decisions. Please do not be hasty. Your situation is difficult, but choosing to run away when your covenants are not broken would be deeply unfaithful.
God has given your son freedom to be promiscuous. He has given you the duty to try and influence him towards a relationship with Jesus that would change his moral choices. If he is rejecting the offer of the gospel and choosing the way of the world, he is exercising his freedom, just as Eve and Adam did. That does not make him not your son. And it certainly does not make your husband not your husband.
Thank you. Yes, I would be breaking the covenant and I would fully accept the responsibility for doing that. But how can I reconcile my husband wanting to give our son condoms when that goes totally against God's will for our son? I told my husband this morning that it will assure our son will have sex, and will also tell him that we think it's not only inevitable but just fine with us. We are 180 degrees apart on this issue, I have lived the pain and suffering that teenage sex brings along with it and I never want my kids to have that stain on their hearts and their souls. What a victory it is when young men and women can bring untainted bodies and minds to their marriage! I don't believe in dating because I think that is just temptation, but if this son were a more honorable person, I'd consider allowing him to date. However I know he is not an honorable person and has no honorable intentions towards the girls he is hooking up with.
My husband is like a non-Christian in this regard and probably doesn't understand why I am making such a big deal about this - after all, it's only sex! I don't think I can forgive him if he really enables our son to have pre-marital sex. You see, in my husband's mind, the worst that can happen is pregnancy. But condoms break, or aren't put on properly, and girls get pregnant anyway. If that were to happen, the girl could have an abortion without my son ever even knowing. Him being a father is the best-case scenario as far as I am concerned...There are diseases too, and condoms don't prevent them. But even more than that, having sex forms a covenant between two people, it makes 2 into 1, each and every time, and then breaks that covenant, leading to calloused and bitter hearts and minds, SIN SIN SIN. My kids' dad is OK with giving them the mechanism for SIN!!!!!
My husband and I lived together before we were married. I have deeply regretted that for years now, but there is nothing I can do to repair it. What I can impart to others who think it's harmless is that you give up a great deal of RESPECT when you do such a thing - something you can never get back. if my husband had had to wait until we were married to be intimate with me, there would have been a different kind of respect for me. Sex does not mean as much to him, and I can see my mistakes now, but of course it is impossible to fix. I was a motherless daughter and my dad was not equipped to intervene in my life, so I lost my virginity at age 15. Sex = love because boys treated you as special when you gave them what they wanted. My sister got me on birth control pills - she was promiscuous too. I never got pregnant but she did, and had an abortion.
I would tell my son some of this, but he would only disrespect me more and think less of me. He would not think, "Oh, wow, Mom's been through so much pain, maybe i should pay attention and learn from her, and I'm sorry that she's been hurt. I don't want to hurt girls that way." That is what I would like for him say/do. If only....
I am going to call the local constable, they have come to the house several times already, and ask them what they advise us to do at this point. I want them to file reports whenever he leaves the house, so that our statement about what happened is on file. So far they haven't filled out any paperwork but I wish they had. In retrospect, I think we need to leave a paper trail so the authorities know that we've been having trouble with him and have been trying to help him but are getting nowhere.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 2:18:19 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LMKH
Is he on Focalin? My child went ...horrible...when on it. I googled and found out that can happen. Maybe try switching meds.
No, he is on Adderall, which he takes only on school days. He's taken it for years now, it's the only stimulant that works as well for him. He had a bad reaction to one of the anti-depressants - can't remember which one now - it was as if his soul had left him. There was no one in there, it was awful and I took him off it immediately.
I'd love to blame everything on the meds. In his case, he makes bad decisions with or without them, but in general he he thinks better while he is medicated than when he is not.
I am just so tired of all of it. I've come to the end of my wits and all that's left is for God to step in.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 3:15:11 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7661
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
Thank you. Yes, I would be breaking the covenant and I would fully accept the responsibility for doing that.
James 1:19-20
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
In other words, you getting angry isn’t going to accomplish God’s will. You would be leaving because you are at your wits end. Believe me I understand that spot and it is extremely uncomfortable, but leaving your family will not make things better. It will make them worse, especially when you suffer the consequences. How do you know that you will not have an impact or that you would be able to lessen the negative impact of your husband? You don’t know that. It is likely that you could make a positive impact or lessen the trouble by staying, praying and standing your ground.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
But how can I reconcile my husband wanting to give our son condoms when that goes totally against God's will for our son?
You can’t, but that is not your responsibility. You are only responsible for yourself, not what your husband is doing. You have told him what you believe is righteous and he has rejected it. You have done what is right. You cannot control him. But you can continue to stay and walk in faith. How do you know that it won’t turn your husband’s heart of truth?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
I told my husband this morning that it will assure our son will have sex, and will also tell him that we think it's not only inevitable but just fine with us.
This is not true. Your son will know that you and your husband are in disagreement over this, because you will tell your son that condoms are for married people. Give him some literature on STD’s and so forth. My daughter picked up some really good brochures from “Human Life” at the fair and gave them to a friend and explained to her how dangerous it was to be having sex outside of marriage.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
We are 180 degrees apart on this issue, I have lived the pain and suffering that teenage sex brings along with it and I never want my kids to have that stain on their hearts and their souls. What a victory it is when young men and women can bring untainted bodies and minds to their marriage! I don't believe in dating because I think that is just temptation, but if this son were a more honorable person, I'd consider allowing him to date. However I know he is not an honorable person and has no honorable intentions towards the girls he is hooking up with.
This is what you believe. I agree with you, but we cannot force anyone else to believe what we believe. We can pray, fast and teach the truth, but it is the personal heart that must be convicted.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
My husband is like a non-Christian in this regard and probably doesn't understand why I am making such a big deal about this - after all, it's only sex! I don't think I can forgive him if he really enables our son to have pre-marital sex.
I understand how upsetting this is, but unforgiveness is a sin too. Sin is sin. If you do not have grace and forgiveness, you will be in sin.
Matthew 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
You have to leave room for God. What you are saying here is that you are doing it your way. God’s way is to be patient, kind, gracious, forgiving, etc. It seems that your focus is on what is wrong, rather than focusing on your relationship with the Lord and letting His Spirit move through you for good works. “Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”
Gotta go. Maybe I’ll have time to type more later.
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/4/2010 10:19:47 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline
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I read your response and will re-read it tomorrow. There is a lot I must think and pray about.
He's been looking at porn tonight.
There is just no end and perhaps I do need to let it go and give it to God. This is what he is doing right now and he is in rebellion against my values and God's requirements for him. What do I expect? That he will realize what he's doing if I say the magic words? I'm not God, and I know that. I've been trying to save him from his own bad choices for years now. I'm exhausted and he just keeps going the way he wants to.
I will welcome hearing more from you.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/5/2010 3:43:41 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 2317
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
But how can I reconcile my husband wanting to give our son condoms when that goes totally against God's will for our son?
You understand that your husband will choose things that do not sit right with you... but that doesn't make them your choices. Your husband is free. God does not enforce His will over your husband, and He has not asked you to either. Your son is free. God does not enforce His will over your son, and He has not asked you to either.
quote:
I told my husband this morning that it will assure our son will have sex
No. It won't.
quote:
and will also tell him that we think it's not only inevitable but just fine with us. We are 180 degrees apart on this issue
I don't think that one action by his father will confuse your son as to what he clearly understands already about what you think of promiscuity.
quote:
I would be breaking the covenant and I would fully accept the responsibility for doing that... I don't think I can forgive him if he really enables our son to have pre-marital sex.
Please think about the dead-clear commandments of your "Lord" that you are considering breaking with full knowledge and intention... then ask yourself whether it is really your faith that is making you so reactive against your son's sexual freedom, and your husband's, plan that assumes that your son is likely to continue to be an idiot. Your husband has moved to damage control mode. It might not be a good plan, but it is not a clear contravention of direct commandments like you have in mind.
You are letting fear (probably based on your own experiences) make you senseless in this matter, and you are grasping for control of other people's lives. It is not the course of wisdom or godliness.
quote:
My kids' dad is OK with giving them the mechanism for SIN!!!!!
It is God that gave your son the mechanism for sexual sin. His penis. That's all it takes.
quote:
I would tell my son some of this, but he would only disrespect me more and think less of me.
You are right, now would be a poor time for such disclosures.
quote:
This is what he is doing right now and he is in rebellion against my values and God's requirements for him. What do I expect? That he will realize what he's doing if I say the magic words? I'm not God, and I know that. I've been trying to save him from his own bad choices for years now.
I hope and pray that wisdom will come to you from our Father, and that you will be freed from both fear and hopelessness. "Perseverance" means "long suffering".
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/5/2010 4:16:09 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 915
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline
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Hi Hey mom~
Also with long suffering which is part of the fruit of the Spirit will in time bring Joy 
I want to again reinstate what I had said earlier: Send him to a bootcamp, the programs are like 2-4 weeks long and will give you and your husband a chance to reunite as a unit.
The bible tells us to not allow anyone to pull asunder what He has put together. IOW: Do not allow your son (or anoyone for that matter) to destroy the marriage that God has blessed you with.
Marriage is not an easy task and it takes work, as well as parenting.
Seeking a solution to help make your child whole and learning to live life in God's abundance also takes work.
You can make a difference by taking charge and working towards this. You husband seems to agree that your son is out of control, but do not allow your son to think he is above anyone because of his disability.
His disability frankly is, he doesn't have Jesus.
Part of the cure is tough love.
Stop coddling him, he is close to reaching adulthood and will soon be out of your control. However it is your responsibility to help preapre him for this transition.
With his attitude will not be able to substain employment, because he wants to be catered to.
Will have relational problems because if it doesn't go his way, doesn't want to work to solve the differences.
I can go on, but believe you get the gist of what I am saying.
Since things continue to esculate, your best options is to find a suitable program for him, like bootcamp which is an eye opener, or something similiar in retrospect that allows him to learn that life is not just about him and how he lives his life will affect others.
I am sorry you are still struggling with this, but get tough and may His peace soon come your way
CMT
_____________________________
formerly Delete 123
Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/22/2010 10:50:44 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
You understand that your husband will choose things that do not sit right with you... but that doesn't make them your choices. Your husband is free. God does not enforce His will over your husband, and He has not asked you to either. Your son is free. God does not enforce His will over your son, and He has not asked you to either.
quote:
I told my husband this morning that it will assure our son will have sex
No. It won't.
quote:
and will also tell him that we think it's not only inevitable but just fine with us. We are 180 degrees apart on this issue
I don't think that one action by his father will confuse your son as to what he clearly understands already about what you think of promiscuity.
quote:
I would be breaking the covenant and I would fully accept the responsibility for doing that... I don't think I can forgive him if he really enables our son to have pre-marital sex.
Please think about the dead-clear commandments of your "Lord" that you are considering breaking with full knowledge and intention... then ask yourself whether it is really your faith that is making you so reactive against your son's sexual freedom, and your husband's, plan that assumes that your son is likely to continue to be an idiot. Your husband has moved to damage control mode. It might not be a good plan, but it is not a clear contravention of direct commandments like you have in mind.
You are letting fear (probably based on your own experiences) make you senseless in this matter, and you are grasping for control of other people's lives. It is not the course of wisdom or godliness.
quote:
My kids' dad is OK with giving them the mechanism for SIN!!!!!
It is God that gave your son the mechanism for sexual sin. His penis. That's all it takes.
quote:
I would tell my son some of this, but he would only disrespect me more and think less of me.
You are right, now would be a poor time for such disclosures.
I hope and pray that wisdom will come to you from our Father, and that you will be freed from both fear and hopelessness. "Perseverance" means "long suffering".
I guess I didn't expect this kind of a response...it hurts to release him into what I cannot control...Yes, I have experience with having been sexual since I was 14. I regret every moment of it and it breaks my heart to think of my son both causing that kind of pain for a girl and the end result of him hardening his own heart by having sexual relationships outside of marriage. If I could go back and undo what I did when I was his age, I would in a heartbeat! The precious gift that God gives us of sexual pleasure belongs to the person God chooses to be our spouse, to no one else. I so regret not valuing myself enough to stay pure. There was no one in my life to tell me that I was that precious and valuable, not to throw it away in meaningless relationships, looking for love. My mother died when I was 10 and my father just didn't have it in him to really cherish a young girl and show her how a real man should treat a woman. He loved me, but he just never gave me that critical perspective...So I went looking for my value in sex.
I want to save my son from what I went through, and I want to keep the girls pure as well. I guess...oh man...I see it now...I want to save myself as a young girl through keeping him pure...Thank you God for showing me....ouch...the realization hurts...Of course it's partly that I don't want him to get a girl pregnant, have her have an abortion...that part is purely practical and moral...Some of this is psychological though. I am going to have to talk to Abba about this....the shame...of my own history...
I really don't like having to be in this position with my son, either, but his dad refuses to talk about things like this with him, with either of the boys. I have had to do all that discussion, and I was OK with that, although I really wish I didn't have to do it. It brings up all sorts of stuff for me, obviously.
I'm a mess right now so I am going to stop here. Please continue to pray for me. So sad and grieving...Thank you....
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/22/2010 11:28:57 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2737
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
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I am praying for all three of you tonight; for comfort and wisdom for you, and salvation for your DH and DS. (((HUgs)))
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/23/2010 2:36:15 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline
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Thank you so much. It means a lot. I didn't think that I was using my kids to work out my own childhood problems, I thought I had dealt with everything before they were born. I know people who say that the fastest way to access your childhood issues is to have kids - better than therapy! :) But then you have to work on the issues or mess the kids up by trying NOT to mess them up!! If that makes any sense to you.
I am praying and trying to absorb all of this...I have so damaged my relationship with my son...I mean, he's done his share, but I have made mistakes. Big mistakes. By treating him as if he were just like me, a "mini-me" as it were, I've done damage to his self-image. Middle school was a horror for me, and since he has ADHD, I know that kids like him do have more problems to deal with, so I decided that he needed to be homeschooled, that it would be better for him. Thus, I as much told him, "You can't handle this." Thankfully he rebelled and hubby changed his mind, and we were able to get our son into a Catholic school, but he was 3 weeks late to start and had trouble fitting into a group of kids that had been together since pre-K...Every bad experience he had confirmed to me that I had been right, that middle school was wrong for our son. I didn't say that to his face but his struggles became my struggles somewhere in the mix...Even normal middle-schoolers are embroiled in drama, so it's important to stay out, but I sure didn't. I'm pretty sure that's when the rebellion started, there was too much controlling and fixing coming from me, and he started taking things and lying.
I don't like the idea of letting him go...to do what he wants....I feel that I am losing the battle. I don't want him to "win!" But I also know that it's not my battle to win or lose, is it - it's God's. And as Bolt pointed out, God gave him the mechanism with which to sin, which is his mind, which connects to his sexual organ. I didn't do that. I do know that when you restrict teenagers too much, they are only attracted to each other that much more because then it becomes clandestine, thus more exciting.
I guess the best I can do is what Cynthia suggested - get materials on sex, STDs, pregnancy, and just give them to him, not preaching or yelling or anything. Just give him information and then step back. Yes, he could get a girl pregnant, and yes, she might have an abortion, but that is NOT MY SIN. I don't know God's plan for my son, or what's ahead for him. And right now, I cannot influence him AT ALL because I've caused so much damage that he can't listen to anything I say. So my emotional tirades at him have had the opposite effect than I hoped they would.
Where does my husband come into this?? I guess I have a lot more prayer and consideration to do on that point. Whatever my son turns out to be, he won't be a man because I taught him how! I have been trying to do my husband's job because he isn't doing it (as I want him to, anyway), but I'm screwing it up really badly. Hmmmmm....I wonder why??? :) God put a man and a woman together for a reason and I believe this is one reason why. I'm not allowing my husband room to do his part. Whatever he does or doesn't do, it's not my responsibility in the end. I'm not going to stop being a parent, but there's a lot I need to let go of and let God have (he has it anyway, I know).
Dear God, I am sorry (you know what for), and I surrender my will (which you gave me a lot of!) to yours. Love, J.
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/23/2010 3:08:09 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7661
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
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J, What a blessing to read your humble post. May God's grace cover you.
This is the second time I have posted this very relevant scripture today:
2 Corinthians 12:9 NAS
And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
This morning I was dealing with my strong willed son and he was in some of the worst form he could have been. Once he had calmed down and was ready to listen, we were able to make much progress in our relationship and in his studies. When we came to Bible study, this verse was part of his work. We talked about how his "issues" are his weakness, but by giving them over to the Lord in repentence the Lord will dwell in Him and the grace of God is sufficient to help him.
Another really good one is:
1 Peter 4:8 NAS
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
Do not give up hope. You have been doing your best and are doing your best. Remember also that you are not the only parent here. Your husband has had a hand in what you are seeing now. It is good to take responsibility for your part, but do not feel like it's all your fault or to receive condemnation. The Bible tells us that Christ did not come to condem us, but to seek and save those who are lost. Focus on Him. Let His power, love and sound judgement flow through you.
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/27/2010 1:41:38 PM
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LMKH
Posts: 147
Status: offline
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I have gotten books from the Christian book store on these topics. I liked the perspective. The store I go to is called "Mardel." I don't know if you have those there.
(((hugs))) I just came back to your post because I had been thinking of you. I hope today is a good day for you!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
Thank you so much. It means a lot. I didn't think that I was using my kids to work out my own childhood problems, I thought I had dealt with everything before they were born. I know people who say that the fastest way to access your childhood issues is to have kids - better than therapy! :) But then you have to work on the issues or mess the kids up by trying NOT to mess them up!! If that makes any sense to you.
I am praying and trying to absorb all of this...I have so damaged my relationship with my son...I mean, he's done his share, but I have made mistakes. Big mistakes. By treating him as if he were just like me, a "mini-me" as it were, I've done damage to his self-image. Middle school was a horror for me, and since he has ADHD, I know that kids like him do have more problems to deal with, so I decided that he needed to be homeschooled, that it would be better for him. Thus, I as much told him, "You can't handle this." Thankfully he rebelled and hubby changed his mind, and we were able to get our son into a Catholic school, but he was 3 weeks late to start and had trouble fitting into a group of kids that had been together since pre-K...Every bad experience he had confirmed to me that I had been right, that middle school was wrong for our son. I didn't say that to his face but his struggles became my struggles somewhere in the mix...Even normal middle-schoolers are embroiled in drama, so it's important to stay out, but I sure didn't. I'm pretty sure that's when the rebellion started, there was too much controlling and fixing coming from me, and he started taking things and lying.
I don't like the idea of letting him go...to do what he wants....I feel that I am losing the battle. I don't want him to "win!" But I also know that it's not my battle to win or lose, is it - it's God's. And as Bolt pointed out, God gave him the mechanism with which to sin, which is his mind, which connects to his sexual organ. I didn't do that. I do know that when you restrict teenagers too much, they are only attracted to each other that much more because then it becomes clandestine, thus more exciting.
I guess the best I can do is what Cynthia suggested - get materials on sex, STDs, pregnancy, and just give them to him, not preaching or yelling or anything. Just give him information and then step back. Yes, he could get a girl pregnant, and yes, she might have an abortion, but that is NOT MY SIN. I don't know God's plan for my son, or what's ahead for him. And right now, I cannot influence him AT ALL because I've caused so much damage that he can't listen to anything I say. So my emotional tirades at him have had the opposite effect than I hoped they would.
Where does my husband come into this?? I guess I have a lot more prayer and consideration to do on that point. Whatever my son turns out to be, he won't be a man because I taught him how! I have been trying to do my husband's job because he isn't doing it (as I want him to, anyway), but I'm screwing it up really badly. Hmmmmm....I wonder why??? :) God put a man and a woman together for a reason and I believe this is one reason why. I'm not allowing my husband room to do his part. Whatever he does or doesn't do, it's not my responsibility in the end. I'm not going to stop being a parent, but there's a lot I need to let go of and let God have (he has it anyway, I know).
Dear God, I am sorry (you know what for), and I surrender my will (which you gave me a lot of!) to yours. Love, J.
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RE: Please help - 15 year old son has me at my wit's end! - 3/27/2010 4:38:46 PM
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Hey_mom
Posts: 127
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline
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Thanks to all who have been so patient and lovingly showed me where I was going wrong...
Can I ask you guys one more question? My son left with his girlfiend a few minutes ago. Previously, he bragged to his friends after one of their "dates," (really a make-out session) that she was driving over 100 mph on the freeway. She is 16 but has her own car. I do not know if the speeding report is true, or if it is exaggeration on my son's part (he can tell stories without a problem).
I do not know this girl's mother - he has told me she's a single mom but has not given me any other information. If I called the school she attends to look up the girl's mother, I'm not sure they'd give me her name and phone number, but I could try.
The problem is that if I contact her mother, and word gets back to Jonathan that I did, to discuss the speeding problem, I don't think he would ever forgive me. But now that I know he stated that she was going that fast, what if something happens to them?
I think I should probably just not use the software any more, after all, it's not doing me any good, since I can't control this young man even when I know the facts, and it's driving me crazy to have information that I can't in any way act upon. Maybe there are some things that only God needs to know, not parents...maybe that's the coward's way out, though...I'm going in circles here, I know.
Should I just pray for them and let go of this? or would you make an attempt to warn the girl's mom that her driving may be dangerous? (when this son starts driving I plan to install a device to monitor his speed.)
_____________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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